IBIS Macromodel Task Group

Meeting date: 06 Nov 2012

Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent:                    * Fangyi Rao
                            * Radek Biernacki
Altera:                       David Banas
                              Julia Liu
                              Hazlina Ramly
Andrew Joy Consulting:        Andy Joy
ANSYS:                        Samuel Mertens
                            * Dan Dvorscak
                            * Curtis Clark
                              Steve Pytel
                            * Luis Armenta
Arrow Electronics:            Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems:       Terry Jernberg
                            * Ambrish Varma
                              Feras Al-Hawari
                              Brad Brim
                            * Kumar Keshavan
                              Ken Willis
Cavium Networks:              Johann Nittmann
Celsionix:                    Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems:                Ashwin Vasudevan
                              Syed Huq
Ericsson:                     Anders Ekholm
IBM:                          Greg Edlund
Intel:                        Michael Mirmak
Maxim Integrated Products:  * Mahbubul Bari
                            * Hassan Raghat
                            * Ron Olisar
Mentor Graphics:            * John Angulo
                              Zhen Mu
                            * Arpad Muranyi
                              Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology:            Randy Wolff
                              Justin Butterfield
NetLogic Microsystems:        Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks:       Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp.                * James Zhou
SiSoft:                     * Walter Katz
                              Todd Westerhoff
                              Doug Burns
                              Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP:                  Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro:                     Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group:   Scott McMorrow
                            * Bob Ross
TI:                           Casey Morrison
                              Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor:        Eric Sweetman
Xilinx:                       Mustansir Fanaswalla
                              Ray Anderson

The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi

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Opens:

- Arpad unavailable for the 11/13 meeting.  Since that also coincides with
  the Asian Summit, the group agreed to cancel the meeting on 11/13.

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Call for patent disclosure:

- None

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Review of ARs:

- Arpad to send BIRD 121.2 draft 10 to Mike L. to post on the ATM website:
  - Forgot after last meeting, was not done until this morning.
  - Mike L. not available today so it was not posted.
  - emailed to the group.
  - done

- Fangyi to send "Redriver" BIRD draft and PowerPoint to Mike L. to post
  on the ATM website:
  - done

- Walter and Ambrish to clear up the language of BIRD 150 offline.
  - done

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New Discussion:

BIRD 121.2 draft 10 (Parameters for Data Management):
- Arpad: Are people ready to comment, or should we postpone the discussion?
- Bob: I have some minor points.
  - Usage Rules for Supporting_Files:
    - States, "... a file definition is redundant ...", but it is legal.
- Arpad: (changing document)
  - new text, "...is legal, but redundant..."
- Bob: Definition for Supporting_Files:
  - Remove "According to the IBIS specification".
- Arpad: done.
- Bob: Same sentence:
  - Make "executable" plural, and change "its" to "their".
- Radek: actually, change "their" to "the".
- Bob: agreed.
- Arpad: done.
- John: Same sentence:
  - Change "defined" to "declared".
- Arpad: done.
- Bob: Usage Rules for Supporting_Files:
  - Remove "for some reason".
- Arpad: done.
- Bob: Example for DLL_Path:
  - The (Value "NA") concerns me because NA has meaning elsewhere.
- Radek: Replace it with (Value "placeholder").
- Ambrish and Bob: agreed.
- Arpad: done.
- Arpad: I will save this as draft 11 and send it to Mike L. to post to the
  ATM website.


Presentation on "Redriver" BIRD draft. (posted to ATM site, see ARs above)
- Mahbubul: Introduction to PowerPoint presentation
  - Mahbubul, Ron, Hassan, Fangyi are collaborators.
- Fangyi: presenting.
  - Redriver background slides
    - Equalizer, no CDR.
    - Nonlinear and Noisy, would break LTI assumption for end-to-end channel.
    - Need to extend existing AMI capabilities.
- Bob: Are Tx and Rx blocks contained in separate IBIS models.
- Fangyi: yes.
- Fangyi: next page (page 3) of presentation
  - Important point is that Tx Model is an analog output circuit, not a
    typical D to A scheme.
- Arpad: If the Rx model generates a clock ticks array it is to be ignored?
- Fangyi: yes.
- Arpad: Repeaters with a CDR exist in practice, how are they handled?
- Fangyi: We define that as a "Retimer" not a "Redriver".
- Ambrish: The example shows a "Terminator" model for the Rx?  Illegal?
- Fangyi: Yes, that should be "Input".
  - We have a BIRD draft to make "Terminator" legal.
- Dan and Bob: Are these flagged as "Redrivers" in the .ibs file?
- Fangyi: No.
- Fangyi: next page - Simulation Flow Diagram.
- Ambrish: Are there any differences between these and a regular AMI file.
- Fangyi: Only difference is that Tx output analog model is not a D to A.
- Fangyi: The EDA tool provides a method for importing a "Redriver".
  - The user imports the [Model]s into the "Redriver" device.
- Kumar: The repeater pin premise (BIRD 131) is more general.
- Ambrish: The user figuring out what a "Redriver" model is seems redundant.
- Walter: We have "Redriver" and BIRD 131's "Repeater".
  - What's the difference between these proposals?
- Fangyi: The simulation flow is more detailed.
- Walter: Agreed, Agilent's flow is more specific.
- Walter: Does this generalize to multiple repeater packages?
- Ambrish: Agree with Walter.
  - Modify the simulation flow of BIRD 131 based on this presentation.
- Walter:  This "Redriver" is constrained to analog only Tx.
  - There are repeater devices out there that use digital clocks.
  - The same model maker is the doing Tx and Rx sides.
    - Why not generalize this so model maker can do either type (of Tx).
- Fangyi: The signal that drives the Tx is different in a "Retimer".
- Walter: Redriver has a true analog waveform.
  - If Rx has a clock, the only difference is the waveform going to Tx
    goes from + or - 0.5V.
  - Redriver - Rx returns analog.
  - Retimer - Rx returns "digital."  Jitter parameters would apply.
- Fangyi: With Retimer you need not use the Rx output waveform at all.
- Kumar: Repeater pin is more general.
  - It just says left side, right side.
- Walter: I think we have something of a consensus on a good combination:
  - Simulation flow of this proposal should be combined with BIRD 131.
- Ambrish: It's not necessary for that much detail in the flows.
- Walter: disagree
  - Useful to show output of Rx GetWave is input to Tx GetWave.
- Walter: I think the flows should use the terminology from IBIS 5.1.
  - See page 162 in IBIS 5.1.
- Fangyi: Which terminology is not consistent with 5.1?
- Walter: (asks Fangyi to share the BIRD itself)
  - hAC1, for example, that terminology did not make it into 5.1.
  - I think the wording is fine, but we need to be consistent.
  - I like this terminology, but we should be consistent.
- Arpad: He's distinguishing between two outputs with hAC1 and hAC2.
  - Isn't the hAC already consistent with 5.1?
- Walter: I don't think it made it into 5.1.
  - I think we agree that we need consistent terminology.
- Fangyi: Agreed.
- Arpad: Can we make it an AR to combine BIRD 131 and this proposal?
- Ambrish: Please include me in the discussions.
- Fangyi: Maxim and Agilent will discuss this first.
  - They will then contact Walter and Ambrish.
- Arpad: Okay then, we're about out of time.  Any last comments?
- Arpad: Next week's meeting is canceled.  


New ARs:

AR: Arpad to send the new draft 11 of BIRD 121.2 to Mike L. to post to the ATM website.
AR: Fangyi, Mahbubul, et. al., to discuss merging their "Redriver" proposal with BIRD 131.
AR: Fangyi, Mahbubul, et. al., contact Walter and Ambrish for further BIRD 131 discussions.


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Next meeting: 20 Nov 2012 12:00pm PT

Next agenda:
1) Task list item discussions

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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:

1) Simulator directives
